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 Post subject: 2005 Spec Series - Time to start really talking about it!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:07 pm 
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I'd like to get some early conversation going about the 2005 Spec Series @ The Alpine....

After doing some thinking I would like to open the discussion with the possiblity of going to the Trinity T-Spec / ORL2 Rules for the Spec Class for the 2005 season....

This has a couple of advantages, there are alot of people out there with them already, the cost of entry is REALLY LOW, $129.00 for the kit, battery, motor, & body. We would have to decide which tires to run, it has two options, the kit rubber tires, which seem to work ok, but wear fairly quickly or the spec foam tires, which come in several compounds. A set fo the spec foams would add approx. $40.00 to the kit price. Another advantage is that if you decide to run any of the ORL2 you would be setup to run their as we would be matching their rules....or a close assemblence of their rules....

Ok, it is out there, lets here what you guys think....

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:54 pm 
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Definitely an interesting twist on the Spec Class. I see the proposed changes as having some advantages/disadvantages:

Advantages:
- Low cost of entry
- A little more equal since ALL of the parts are "speced" on every car in the field
-might attract a few more first-timers into the hobby due to the low cost and relative ease of building a competitive car

Disadvantages:
-No "recyclable" parts if the racer decides they want to move to a more competitive class (for example- a mid-level ESC that is competitive in T-Spec might not be in other classes, and might not be viable in a modified class @ all. The same argument could be made for the batteries, servo and motor as well.)
-Unique body choices (if the rules are followed to the letter) would no longer be an option
-Possibility of losing some more experienced drivers from participation in the class (I, for one, will not be fielding a T-Spec entry. While I feel that the class is founded on solid rules set on keeping the cars equal, I wouldn't build another car to participate under these rules since it would mean yet another vehicle to maintain and prepare for race events.) Having more seasoned racers participating in the class can help develop the new racers, and help them rectify many of the issues encountered over the course of an event, series, etc.
-anyone arguing that the spec class cars were "too slow" before might lose interest, as the T-Spec cars are more equal albeit a little slower.

John gathered the wood for the fire, and I've lit it. Who's adding the fuel??? :)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:24 pm 
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GREAT, another class for the local Trinity sponsored drivers to drive away the "NEWBIES" this would only work if the class was restricted to novice drivers only. Spurcheck, what do you think? :ray:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:40 pm 
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So are you saying limit the participants by skill level? Or that Ray would have to Ok the racer if they wanted to enter the class?

We could still borrow some ideas from the NASTruck/BeetleCup/EuroTruck series, a fixed gear ratio, but that could also be tampered with if we used foam tires (which I am not in favor of for a newbie/entry level class, just more gear for a racer getting started to buy)

I am putting it out there, if the majority says they want the spec series the way we have run it in the past, a newbie wanted to get started with the class could still use the T-Sepc car for that class....

Again, just floating ideas, we have time to discus this and kick it around...

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:15 am 
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Limiting the class by experience level has its set of pros and cons as well, but I wouldn't be in favor of that either... After all, the class was founded and administered by the SixFootTiger team; limiting the class to newbies only would basically render the most loyal participants ineligible. Furthermore, I wouldn't want to be the person drawing the line in the sand separating newbies from seasoned racers...


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:50 am 
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This is really early in the discussion process for the class next year and I may not even be the right person to comment because I only participated in one event this year. But, from what I have read so far I have not seen enough evidence to change anything from last season, including the bodies. I think they should run Nastrucks as bodies for one more season, then re-evaluate. As for the other rules "it ain't broke, so be cautious on what you try to fix". OEOEO and justraceit make some very strong points that must be taken into consideration, too.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:37 am 
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I agree with Jeff. I gained a lot of experience running Nastruck as my first onroad class than I may have trying to be competitive in the Stock sedan class. As a novice, I did not need to spend a lot of time on specialized motor tuning, gear ratios, etc. And yet the program is flexible to allow shock springs, chassis mods, etc. as options as we learn our cars and their handling.

The T-Spec is not a bad idea, but the used ones out there are going for almost full price, and I haven't seen many parts available yet. I know there are plenty of TC3's that can be bought cheap on eBay, especially now with the TC4 out. This will help the new racer that's cost conscious.

As to body, since we all will be assigned new numbers, we will all need new bodies. With that, I would be open to either the Nastruck again or a discussion on IROC bodies, all alike except the number and each a unique color. Either is fine with me, although I do like customizing the Nastruck to look like a Nastruck.

Thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:18 am 
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I was not for or against the move, just floating it out there for discussion....Now another thing to keep in mind, I do believe if someone wants to run their T-Spec in NASTruck it will be competitive, they would need tires and whatever the body is, so a newbie could use that as a point of entry to the series, PLUS have a car that will be able to be run in other spec series....

As for bodies, I love the NASTruck body, I also really liked the EuroTruck, I think they got the most WOW's of any body we have tried to date....What we have done the two previous off seasons is put up a poll which included the previous years body and then a few suggested bodies from the collective group....

Other bodies I think might be cool to try:
From HPI:
Lamborghini Gallardo
Dodge Viper GTS-R
Lamborghini Murcielago
Porsche 911 Turbo

From Proline:
Corvette C6
Cadillac Escalade EXT
Hummer H2 SUT

From McAllister (http://www.mcallisterracing.com/racing/page4.html)
"Wildcat 3" Body.
FLYING "M" GT
Mustang Cobra
Jaguar XKR

From Parma/PSE
'41 Willys
'56 Chevrolet® Nomad®
‘39 Ford Woody with Decal Set
Pro ‘37 Chevy® Street/Strip w/Wing & Headlights
(There are a ton more cool bodies from Parma)

and I am sure there are many others, I just went thru and picked out some different ones....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:38 pm 
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Yes, like TigeRyan said, this is just an "idea" and wanted to get opinions....

The reason being, I am already planning to push the T-Spec class heavily over the winter and wondered if there was a possibility on combining the two classes somehow, since they are both "spec" related.

Our spec classes over the years are unique to SJCCR. It's always a group effort to come up with a concept every year which is a beautiful thing!!!

We're not looking to change this....just asking questions and looking for feedback....:)

As far as the T-Spec class, my thoughts are that it would work for the newbie up to the "average joe" racer. I agree that sponsored guys shouldn't run in this class, but if you look at the big picture, all the sponsored guys who ran in our previous spec classes never ran enough races to contend for a series point championship.

If we look at T-Spec as a summer series, the newbies and "average joes" (no offence to anyone named Joe...lol) still have an excellent chance at doing well in the series.

At this point, I would like everyone to start spreading the word about T-Spec racing whether you plan to race it or not. Whenever you talk to new people, let them know that guys like me and spurcheck are on a mission to get a radio in their hands for the first time!!!!!!!!!!!!!

::evil grin::


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:41 pm 
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Uh oh, the pimp's on a mission... :pimp: I like the sound of trying to get the newcomers into the hobby, and I'd like to see the T-Spec class grow since it's a great way to get involved without too much of a financial burden. I'm not sure whether or not the two classes could be merged together however... At least we have time to discuss it.


BTW- How about the Proline Cadillac CTS for the spec body next year??? Maybe an Acura NSX???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:11 pm 
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Barry, I can add those two bodies to the list, at some point we will narrow it down to about 7-10 and then vote....

As for the two classes merging, I have no idea, I kinda think it may be hard for two spec classes to survive at one track....one of my biggest beefs is fractioning of classes to the point where there is no B-Main...having 7 drivers in a class to me just doesnt do it...I want to MAKE the A-main, IE: what we have been getting at PB's offroad is great fun, trying to see what main you can get to...

One thing I think would be cool would be for a LHS to stepup and come up with a ready to race kit...meaning, the T-Spec Kit, a Radio (servo, transmitter, receiver) , ESC, Tires and a baseline charger for a packaged price...I dont know what that number is, but with something like that a new racer would REALLY know what they are getting into, here is the cost to get to your first race day... Again just a suggestion....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:35 pm 
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TigeRyan wrote:
Barry, I can add those two bodies to the list, at some point we will narrow it down to about 7-10 and then vote....

As for the two classes merging, I have no idea, I kinda think it may be hard for two spec classes to survive at one track....one of my biggest beefs is fractioning of classes to the point where there is no B-Main...having 7 drivers in a class to me just doesnt do it...I want to MAKE the A-main, IE: what we have been getting at PB's offroad is great fun, trying to see what main you can get to...

One thing I think would be cool would be for a LHS to stepup and come up with a ready to race kit...meaning, the T-Spec Kit, a Radio (servo, transmitter, receiver) , ESC, Tires and a baseline charger for a packaged price...I dont know what that number is, but with something like that a new racer would REALLY know what they are getting into, here is the cost to get to your first race day... Again just a suggestion....


I agree on all counts, especially about earning an A-Main starting spot. I've been in many a race where I ended up in an A-Main and didn't belong there. And a "home grown" T-Spec RTR package could be a good thing for our local shops. 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 9:28 am 
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I guess there was one small thing I was missing when I jumped on the T-Spec bandwagon....I didn't intend to divert attention from our "Cup" class.

I still look forward every year to see the "bodies of the year" ripping it around the track! To read about the selection of bodies, then the voting, then the actual finished product is just awesome!

It's just when I surf around the 'net, I see other area programs trying to push T-Spec and wanted to give these racers another outlet to race them.

To see one first hand, it looks like a high quality/low maintenence kit that has a ton of potential to get new racers to the track.

Now that I've thought about it more, two spec classes would be stretching the racer base pretty thin at first. Here is another direction we can consider....

How about if we continue our "whatever" Cup class, then just add T-Specs to the same program? I'm guessing T-Specs under the current T-Spec rules would be a bit slower, so maybe come up with a seperate gear ratio for T-Spec to make the two classes competitive?

As far as bodies, either the T-Specs can conform to the "body of the year" or let them run "as is" and mix the bodies a bit. This may defeat the purpose a little, but the SJCCR "spec" class would be much bigger.

Or maybe our "Cup" class can consider running a T-Spec body for 2005.

Sorry, a lot of ideas here and my brain is starting to hurt nOw.... :P

Just throwing #$!@ on the wall......LOL


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 11:19 am 
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I think what you have brought up would be acceptable to me on either case, that being:

1. SJCCR Spec Series continues in its current form
2. T-Specs can run in that series using either the body of the year or one of the approved T-Spec bodies

Now, as for speed, I've seen Drew's and I have run mine, I think if they are set at the same spec ratio as the rest of the spec drivers (7.0 currently) I dont think there will be any speed difference. The only variable being the fact that MOST T-Spec racers will be running foams and SJCCR spec will be on rubber tires, thus if the foam drivers are running smaller tires, which at some point they will be, they will have a roll-out advantage over the rubber tire guys....

With all that being said, I'd I would look the other way as long as racers are not using those things to their advantage (IE: Buying a set of foams and immediately taking them to 57mm)

Finally, if we are going to go with a mixed-body class this year we should go with a bit more aerodynamic body since all the bodies legal for T-Spec are racer competition bodies (Stratus-reference is one) ---- Not saying I want a stratus shell for the spec series, but something that has good racing properties would be a good thing, unlike the EuroTrucks which were rolling air bricks.... :)

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 6:13 pm 
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I think you got it backwards, bro - the smaller the tire, the slower the car, all else being equal.

As for the rest of the talk, I can assure you that I'm not buying a T-spec. I plan to continue to run the spec class if it is as it is currently configured, preferably with a new - interesting - body choice this coming year. If things change substantially, you'll see a drop off in interest... not that you didn't see more than a die-hard 6-7 people running the class for the season, regardless of the 40 or so people who were interested enough to sign up (but didn't actually participate).

For body type, I nominate the "Exotic Supercar Challenge" - using a body whose real-life counterpart is a street-legal car costing $100,000 or more. (Lambos, the new Ford, Ferraris, etc.) Painting guidelines could be along the lines of something "street" - pimping your hot ride with a look that you might see cruizin down the strip (flame jobs, tribal patterns, chromalusion paint, that sort of thing).

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